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Feedback: Mass Effect 3 Ending Controversy

Posted: April 4, 2012
Feedback: Mass Effect 3 Ending Controversy
http://www.g4tv.com/videos/58021/feedback-mass-effect-3-ending-controversy/
http://images.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/295436_LGST/feedback.jpg
Video_58021
Blair Herter and the Feedback crew finally addressed Mass Effect 3's controversial ending.

Comments are Closed

  • Gaughranorama

    Nobody thought to mention that the game doesn't actually have an ending? It just stops mid-level. I mean, if you buy into the indoctrination theory, which is the only way to make sense of the last few minutes of the game and you have and EMS of over 5000 and choose to destroy the Reapers then what you're left with is Shepherd lying in a pile of rubble in London. He/She still needs to get to the citadel and destroy the Reapers. Everything from the previous 10 minutes was all in his/her head. It's like ending return of the Jedi when the rebel fleet arrive at Endor's moon or the Lord of the Rings when Frodo and Sam arrive at the border of Mordor.

    Posted: April 5, 2012 2:10 AM
  • alivealie

    During the discussion about Metacritic, I did not notice anyone on the panel mention the fact that a couple hundred of the user reviews of Mass Effect 3 hit the website at right around midnight on the night of the game's release. Were these people actually responding to the game's ending, or were they just reacting to people who leaked the ending? Or, what's more, if they HAD in fact played through the whole game and seen the majority of its content by the beginning of that night, how can it be so that these users actually properly payed for their copies? If we are to argue, as Nikole does, that those who reviewed ME3 with 0's and 1's on Metacritic's user scores are paying costumers, I would like to have someone explain to me where the heck so many people got a hold of this game hours, days, or weeks in advance without pulling some less-than-proper legal strings?

    Posted: April 5, 2012 2:01 AM
    alivealie
  • unbias

    How the crap can you think the ending was intelectual.. I mean REALLY? A singularity cotnroling a singualrity to prevent a singularity is "deep"? Really? Synthesis, the most intellectually absent ending, was according to Mr "Depp ending" was the best one? Did you just not think of the implications of this space magic?

    Posted: April 5, 2012 1:38 AM
    unbias
  • unbias

    Sooo, Sherlock Holmes didnt have artistic integrity, huh? Good to know.

    Posted: April 5, 2012 1:35 AM
    unbias
  • Spawnfreak73

    I want to know Blair's thoughts on the fact that just about everyone hates his wife on ME3.

    Posted: April 5, 2012 1:12 AM
  • HenryGamer

    "I like this bug in COD. It let me pass through walls and fly in the sky. That's cool!
    And it fits the theme of COD that you can fight like a superhero!
    I like this bug. Infinity Ward should not change it. You should not request Infinity Ward to change it. It affects me!"

    That's what I heard in the video..............

    So, although obvious, let me elaborate a bit here.



    1. The theme of ME was never about "Organics creator vs Synthetics created".
    The only story arc about this is "Geth vs Quarian".
    But that was just a side story. Major one, but still a side story.
    And it was revealed in ME3 that Geth was only fighting for survival, or controlled by Reaper. They didn't want to fight.
    "Organics vs Reaper" doesn't count. Because Reaper is exactly the one proposing that this conflict exist and they are doing all these horrible things to solve it. (This is also a plot hole, Reaper is exactly making what they want to prevent happens).
    None other stories of Turian, Krogan, Salairan, Asari, Elcor, Volus were about this "OC vs SC" thing.
    Instead, the whole theme of ME have always been "To stop the Reaper".


    2. Why it's OK to ask for a gameplay bug to be fixed, but wrong to ask for a story bug to be fixed?
    The bugs in ME3's ending are so huge that it ruined the whole series story!
    I try to point out some here:
    a) Mass Relay explosions, as mentioned by the girl in the video. Shepard didn't even question about it and just did it. Someone (Shepard or Bioware writers) obviously forgot the consequence of blowing up Mass Relay.
    b) Synthesis was the idea of Saren. Control was the idea of Illusive Man. Shepard spent two whole game fighting against these ideas! But at the last 10 minutes, she's suddenly OK with it?
    c) If Citadel AI has been controlling Reaper all along, the whole ME1 story would be turned into a joke! Why Saren and Sovereign need to went through all those troubles to get in touch with Citadel?
    This is not an open ending left for interpretation. This is a buggy ending that needs interpretation (otherwise illogical)! This SHOULD NOT happen in an ending, or any part of a plot.


    3. Requesting to, or not to, change something because of your personal preference is just the same.
    This is exactly the point when the main media first criticize on the ME3 ending protesters. (how do they call it? Entitled whiny crybables?)
    And, according to this logic, developer should never release sequel too.
    "I like Illusive Man in ME2, being a good guy. Why change him into a villain in ME3? Bioware should not release ME3 at all!"
    "No, I like Illusive Man in ME1, a mysterious villain. Why change him into a good guy in ME2? Bioware should not release ME2 at all!"
    Push this logic further, developer cannot even release a game at all. Because as the story progress, every new chapter could have changed the plot you like.

    Moreover, ME3 ending protesters are just asking for DLC. Consider it as one more alternate endings in addition to the current three.
    If you don't like it, don't buy it. Regard the current endings as truth, ME series concluded, move on to play other games.
    But why stop us from getting more choices?
    That's the good things about multiple endings, everyone can get the endings they like.
    Why stop other people from getting theirs just because you happen to found yours?

    And again, ME3 ending protesters are not asking for things they don't like to be changed. They are asking for bugs to be fixed! Promise to be fulfilled (16 endings, reflecting your choices in all three games)!

    Posted: April 5, 2012 1:09 AM
    HenryGamer
  • Perplexed_Waffle

    I like Nikole, but at 25:10 she's talking crazy. "Who are games made for?" Games are made because people who are talented/creative enough to make them choose to do just that. I really hate when people talk like it's more business than art. Maybe the publisher sees it that way, but when gamers start talking like that, it delegitimizes the industry.

    Yeah, video games are a business, but people would make games even if there was no money in it. An artist doesn't paint just to get rich, because that usually doesn't happen anyways. Creating something is an enjoyable experience in itself.

    Posted: April 5, 2012 12:50 AM
    Perplexed_Waffle
  • Spankin117

    Just putting this out there, WHERE THE FRIG IS ADAM!!! Every since Blair took over Adam has only been on one Feedback episode. I'm sure his opinion on this would of been awesome to hear cause for some reason he has not mentioned a word about the ending in his soapbox.

    Posted: April 5, 2012 12:47 AM
  • theantigzus

    i normally love nicole but if you make games for the biggest possible group then all we will have is Call of duty which i stopped buying years ago. Same tthing goes for television which is why its all reality shows with idiots on them because the people that want to see this is the majority only because they want to see people like themselves on tv. Lets face fact the vast majority of people arent very smart so why try to please these people?

    Posted: April 5, 2012 12:22 AM
  • Alchemist4

    Here are some links that explain ME fans dislike about the ending,

    "The more the player understands about the Mass Effect universe, the worse the ending seems."
    http://kotaku.com/5898743/ma ss-effect-3s-ending-disrespect s-its-most-invested-players
    From the feedback that I've read, the quote I posted seems to ring true for the most part although some of ME biggest fans are okay with the ending as it stands.

    Lastly, here is a youtube video that explains where the ME3 ending went wrong and how it deviated from it's core theme/plot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =7MlatxLP-xs

    I'm glad to see some one voicing the concerns of the fans. Thanks Nikole. After watching this Feedback, Captain Kirrahe has three words for you "Hold The Line."

    Posted: April 5, 2012 12:19 AM
    Alchemist4
  • Alchemist4

    Here are some links that explain ME fans dislike about the ending,

    "The more the player understands about the Mass Effect universe, the worse the ending seems."
    http://kotaku.com/5898743/ma ss-effect-3s-ending-disrespect s-its-most-invested-players
    From the feedback that I've read, the quote I posted seems to ring true for the most part although some of ME biggest fans are okay with the ending as it stands.

    Lastly, here is a youtube video that explains where the ME3 ending went wrong and how it deviated from it's core theme/plot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =7MlatxLP-xs

    I'm glad to see some one voicing the concerns of the fans. Thanks Nikole. After watching this Feedback, Captain Kirrahe has three words for you "Hold The Line."

    Posted: April 5, 2012 12:15 AM
    Alchemist4
  • pnathan28

    nikole you rock!! i really don't think it is a lot to ask for a fixed ending. lets not even talk about happy ending, before launch the mass effect community was promised these things an excerpt from gameinformer in may last year with the ME3 cover story

    In Mass Effect 3, you know you need to take back Earth, but the path to victory is less clear at the outset. You won t just find some long-lost Reaper off button; says Hudson

    From a section called OLD CONFLICTS, NEW ALLIES:

    Don t expect to win the loyalty of the galaxy by simply completing a series of fetch quests,

    This is a text block entitled MASS EFFECT MEETS MULTIPLAYER?

    When the teaser for Mass Effect 3 first released, rumours were swirling that the project was actually a multiplayer title set in the Mass Effect universe. Those rumours turned out to be false, but it got many gamers thinking about how a multiplayer component would fit into the Mass Effect trilogy. Rest assured, the team has thought about this, too. As a single-player experience, and just as a world that people want to immerse themselves in and share, we ve been trying to think of a way that makes sense for people to experience Mass Effect with their friends, says executive producer Casey Hudson. We haven t yet come up with a way to do that, so we don t have anything to announce at this time. But, obviously, multiplayer is something we want to do more of in the future as a company.

    In a section called BEYOND THE TRILOGY:

    part of what you re trying to do is save the universe so you can live in it. That s part of the promise, I think, for any great IP. It has to be a world worth saving I think Mass Effect has that quality to it. If you get rid of the Reapers and win that, wouldn t it be amazing to just live on the Citadel or just take a ship to Omega? That makes sense.
    also you have to remember its a customer service fact that for every person that complains , there's 8-10 more that don't bother complaining but will just not buy your product or services again.

    Posted: April 4, 2012 11:46 PM
  • anasazi_pr

    Just some notes...

    1) Mr. Stephen Johnson: The theme of the series is not "the created will always rebel against their creators". Although the Krogran's did rebel against those who ascended them before they were ready, the Geth clearly did NOT rebel against the Quarians. ME3 shows that the Quarians were the ones to start the genocide because they grew fearful that their creations had grown sentience. It would be as if god himself/herself looked down from the heavens, realized people had discovered fire, and said, "This knowledge isn't for you! DIE!" Even after 200 years of war, the geth only fought the quarians when they were either indoctrinated or when their existence was threatened. What is even more important, the creator of the cycle IS the StarChild, and the StarChild is the one that gives Shepard the three choices. Shepard chooses one of the three options given by the child, therefore he doesn't rebel but follows the "predetermined" path.

    2) Mr: Stephen Johnson: Mass Effect series is not a regular game in that Bioware has always pride itself in letting players make their own choices. They did an spectacular job about that until the ending of ME3. When you make the argument that the Red-Green-Blue button variables provide enough of difference in endings depending on your choices, it is the equivalent of reading a choose your own adventure book and then realizing that all the differences in the ending from the variables you've chosen come down to 10 words out of 1000.

    3) Mr. Blair Herter: The Mass Effect series is not the work of a two person team, as Blair exemplified. The game is the work of hundreds of designers, coders, storyboarders, etc. To defend the artistic vision of the game released you would have to assume that all of those hundreds of people brainstormed and contributed to the story/theme of the game. As you are well aware, it would have been impossible for ALL of them to reach consensus in order to produce one vision. For all we know, some if not most of those that work on the game thought of the ending "what the frack is this bleep", but of course, they buckled up and created the best thing they could out of what they were given. The actual "artistic vision" game journalists are fighting so hard to protect is actually the work of a handful of people inside that team, a handful that were also pressured by outside influences like arbitrary deadlines and projected return of investments.

    Mass Effect is NOT art; it's a PRODUCT with ARTISTIC features. If you want to defend a game's artistic integrity, choose a game like Journey: one vision, one theme, one team, and a small company who cared more about delivering a message than making a deadline.

    Posted: April 4, 2012 11:31 PM
    anasazi_pr
  • onepiece226

    The kind of game Nikole wants is something like Angry Birds, simple, easy, pleases the masses. I wanna quote something right now but it's not inappropriate

    Posted: April 4, 2012 11:30 PM
    onepiece226
  • anasazi_pr

    Just some notes...

    1) Mr. Stephen Johnson: The theme of the series is not "the created will always rebel against their creators". Although the Krogran's did rebel against those who ascended them before they were ready, the Geth clearly did NOT rebel against the Quarians. ME3 shows that the Quarians were the ones to start the genocide because they grew fearful that their creations had grown sentience. It would be as if god himself/herself looked down from the heavens, realized people had discovered fire, and said, "This knowledge isn't for you! DIE!" Even after 200 years of war, the geth only fought the quarians when they were either indoctrinated or when their existence was threatened. What is even more important, the creator of the cycle IS the StarChild, and the StarChild is the one that gives Shepard the three choices. Shepard chooses one of the three options given by the child, therefore he doesn't rebel but follows the "predetermined" path.

    2) Mr: Stephen Johnson: Mass Effect series is not a regular game in that Bioware has always pride itself in letting players make their own choices. They did an spectacular job about that until the ending of ME3. When you make the argument that the Red-Green-Blue button variables provide enough of difference in endings depending on your choices, it is the equivalent of reading a choose your own adventure book and then realizing that all the differences in the ending from the variables you've chosen come down to 10 words out of 1000.

    3) Mr. Blair Herter: The Mass Effect series is not the work of a two person team, as Blair exemplified. The game is the work of hundreds of designers, coders, storyboarders, etc. To defend the artistic vision of the game released you would have to assume that all of those hundreds of people brainstormed and contributed to the story/theme of the game. As you are well aware, it would have been impossible for ALL of them to reach consensus in order to produce one vision. For all we know, some if not most of those that work on the game thought of the ending "what the frack is this bleep", but of course, they buckled up and created the best thing they could out of what they were given. The actual "artistic vision" game journalists are fighting so hard to protect is actually the work of a handful of people inside that team, a handful that were also pressured by outside influences like arbitrary deadlines and projected return of investments.

    Mass Effect is NOT art; it's a PRODUCT with ARTISTIC features. If you want to defend a game's artistic integrity, choose a game like Journey: one vision, one theme, one team, and a small company who cared more about delivering a message than making a deadline.

    Posted: April 4, 2012 11:30 PM
    anasazi_pr
  • MiseryDays

    I have to say that I did like the ending, however I more wanted to say something on the concept of having a boss fight at the end of the game.

    It seemed liked a really good idea to me for the ending encounter to be more about conversation then fighting. Not many games in this generation can pull off a final boss. In Mass Effect 1 the last fight was just mediocre and the final boss tin the second game was hated on by damn near everyone. So ending the game with another spider man/saren/illusive man battle or fighting some strange tentacle monster would have just had people lambasting it, just like they did to the giant terminator from two.

    Posted: April 4, 2012 11:23 PM
    MiseryDays
  • onepiece226

    No Nikole the kind of game YOUR asking for is something like Angry Birds, pleasing the masses. Your annoying.

    Posted: April 4, 2012 11:22 PM
    onepiece226
  • onepiece226

    And I also have to say that i'm not sexist or anything but it seems like women in Feedback piss me off more than the guys can with what they say, only sometimes though

    Posted: April 4, 2012 11:04 PM
    onepiece226
  • onepiece226

    Yes you can hate the ending, but to give the whole game a negative score just on "the ending" is not fair to the whole game.

    Posted: April 4, 2012 10:59 PM
    onepiece226
  • xplayfan1500

    I hade to put down Feedback, but I really expected a longer episode. Only 39 minutes and that's it? I feel bad for Donell who didn't get much of a chance to talk. There was so much more to talk about. I would have like to heard how everyone played through the game. What their Shepards were like, and so on so forth. Also some talk about the indocternation theory....

    I don't want to promote another website, but if you want to hear a lot more Mass Effect 3 debate. Head on over to The Escapist.com. They did several podcasts on the game. 2 of them are dedicated just to the ending. Those Podcasts are over 2 hours long, and debate it in much more depth.

    http://www.escapistmagazine. com/videos/view/escapist-podca st/5543-Bonus-Mass-Effect-3-Wi th-Spoilers-Part-3

    Posted: April 4, 2012 10:42 PM
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