Feedback -- BioShock 2 Edition, With A Little Mass Effect 2

Posted: February 10, 2010
Feedback -- BioShock 2 Edition, With A Little Mass Effect 2
Adam Sessler, Abbie Heppe, Jake Gaskill and Patrick Klepek gather to discuss one of the year's biggest releases (already!), BioShock 2. We also take user questions and discuss the latest news of the week.

Comments are Closed

  • Bacbi

    I highly doubt we will see Mass Effect 3 i March 2011. But I think we will see Mass Effect 3 in November 2011. Mass Effect 2 was suppose to come out in Novemberr 2009 but was delayed becasue of Dragon Age. The Mass Effect news is probably some sort of expansion to make u ready for Mass Effect 3. Granted I love Mass Effect 1 and 2 with all my heart, but the majority of games if getting a crew. I loved all the characters I just wish that there was a little more to do then just go and do the final mission once u get them all.

    Posted: February 11, 2010 2:31 AM
  • scooterjss

    In terms of morality in games I think there are several ways to go in implementing it into the games without having to resort to the typical good vs evil. For one thing you can do as Abbie said and allow huge moral choices and just have them influence the story, without necessarily calling them good or evil. I think this is a very appealing option as it allows the player to make their own decisions, right or wrong, and makes them live with the consequences of those decisions.

    If you are going to have a morality system in your game I would like to see a game where making the "good" or "right" decision much more difficult than making the "bad" decision. For example (minor spoilers for those who haven't played Mass Effect 1) at the end of ME1 you have to make a decision on whether or not to rescue the council (paragon) or let the die (renegade). Well what if rescuing the council cost thousands of human lives? You made the good decision, since it allows for a stronger alliance with other races, but as a result you are now extremely unpopular with humanity. I just think this would be an interesting twist on the morality system, since you might have to think twice about your "good" decision.

    Finally, I think a bolder twist on morality in games would be if a developer took their own stance on a moral subject and forced you to play along a certain moral line, I think this would almost make it a bolder artistic statement since, if done well, it would challenge your own moral stances and force you to think more about where you stand and how it relates to real life. Imagine if Modern Warfare 2 forced you to play through "No Russian" rather than allowing you skip the level or hang back. I'm not saying I agree with killing civilians, but in a way I think that by forcing you to go through the level killing civilians it allows you to think about the gray area of undercover ops and whether or not the end result is really worth the cost of operating that way.

    Hopefully developers will eventually start moving toward more interesting implementations of moral choice in video games.

    Posted: February 11, 2010 1:21 AM
  • bcunniff

    Hey Adam as an Accounting major wanted to let you know GAAP stands for Generally Accepted Accounting Procedures. I'm a little upset that SONIC 4 wasn't mentioned I don't know if anyone at G4 or anyone on the feedback read comments. I'm excited for a Sonic that might be good maybe you didn't talk about it because you just have given up on Sonic.

    Posted: February 11, 2010 12:38 AM
  • RolloTomasi

    Aside from the sure to be numerous bitching and nitpicking, I'd just like to say how much I enjoy Feedback every week. Kudos to Patrick, The Sess, Abbie and all of those involved(those nameless AC's we all see). I look forward to Wednesday nights and the 45 some odd minutes listening to people just as nerdy as I, discussing gaming news and experiences. Thanks for all of the time and effort. It is much appreciated and enjoyed. Cheers.

    Posted: February 11, 2010 12:21 AM
  • Cathartic Denoument

    @Andrew Pfister:

    I may be the 3rd person to say this, but..
    ..You guys managed to bleep Abbie's 2nd profane word, but totally missed Muting/Bleeping Abbie's 1st S-bomb.
    Oh..btw..A tip for Feedback editing..
    ..It would be less disturbing while watching Feedback, if you guys MUTED profanity, instead of Bleeping it.
    It'll help maintain the Feedback ambiance & flow, while keeping it clean at the same time.

    Posted: February 10, 2010 11:45 PM
  • bucherbag

    G4, i love you guys, you wana be best friends?

    Posted: February 10, 2010 11:44 PM
  • bucherbag

    G4, i love you guys, do you wana be best friends?

    Posted: February 10, 2010 11:42 PM
  • RandyMercer

    For some odd reason when they mention the choices between good or bad I instantly think of inFAMOUS when you are faced with the choice of bioleeching someone to death or healing them or when you decide to jump off of a high building and thunder drop more than likely killing hundreds. I played as good Cole then as Evil Cole and the game felt so much more disturbing to play through almost heartbreaking. Just a random thought

    Posted: February 10, 2010 11:22 PM
  • Chimp91

    For morality in games. I would prefer something like dragon age. Where your choices have reprecussions in game and can even piss off your teammates for making certain choices. I thought that was interesting and Alpha Protocol looks really interesting in the morality choices you make, especially with the timer.
    All in all though I would prefer if games more went with Patrick's suggestion, just give us choices. Also while I am on the topic, STOP HAVING MY CHOICES AFFECT HOW I LOOK I want to look a certain way and I don't want my choices change that. That is just annoying.
    Anyway, good feedback guys. Can't wait for next week's.

    Posted: February 10, 2010 11:12 PM
  • TD_ThA_MoNsTa

    Great episode of FeedBack. I agree with Patrick Klepek about Fallout New Vegas, it's one of my must buys of 2010 [if it still comes out in 2010. Sounds more likely now than opposed to when it did 2 weeks ago. Also, my house wasn't burried under 2 feet of snow as it is right now].

    Can't wait for G4's coverage of DICE. Hearing about the video lectures they're going to have with designers and developers are something I personally can't wait for. For I'm interested in a career in Game Design, but could use some knowledge.

    Posted: February 10, 2010 11:07 PM
  • power-o-pwn

    Hey sessler what's your gamertag?

    Posted: February 10, 2010 11:01 PM
  • jarrod159

    I just wanted to say thank you for having these weekly feedback episodes. Also being a person very much interested in a career in game development, I'm looking forward to DICE next week.

    Posted: February 10, 2010 10:53 PM
  • willy277

    just to be clear when i posted under the dante's inferno review, that i wasnt complaining about the 3/5, no matter what you guys said about this game i was going to play it because i love the source material. i was ...........complaining........ about the it being a clone con and how thats not really a con especially when you have to spend a lot of the written review explaining it and coming off as you dont mind it.

    Posted: February 10, 2010 10:29 PM
  • Lawrence123

    I would like to be on that beach with Abbie .

    Posted: February 10, 2010 10:12 PM
  • Skwisgaar999

    Yeah. I remember my first play through Fallout 3 and when I got to Tranquility (Here be spoilers, but if you have not played, that sucks, you have had a long time).

    I believe there was a point where you could kill all the people plugged into the simulation at the same time, and doing so would give you a "good" karma point.

    At the time, I was a tad bit amazed at how it seemed that Bethesda had taken a stance on mercy-killing/euthanasia. It was a strange experience and I am glad that this was addressed in Feedback.

    As for the time limits for decisions, I have to admit that I am both intrigued and deterred by the idea. The cool thing about video games is that they are not real life. I could tailor-fit my world. But, just the idea that the decisions could resemble real-life or just the decisions shown in other forms of media (books, Movies, comics, etc) that could elevate games into a different section of art. Rather than being rough simulations, they can become extension of the self and how one would truly react if you had to choose (spoilers for ME1, once again, just being safe) between a hostile take-over of the whole galaxy or peace with the rest of the species. I have to admit, by the end of ME1 I was checking the wiki to see what the hell I was gonna do if I said something. I was jaw-on-ground when the last dialogue tree came up...

    Posted: February 10, 2010 10:08 PM
  • Pillowman

    I enjoyed the show, especially the discussion of bringing up New Vegas. Im with Patrick this is my most anticipated game of the year.

    Posted: February 10, 2010 10:03 PM
  • Apsalus07

    Regarding the morality system that Patrick was talking about wants to be implemented, that's exactly the system used in Dragon Age!

    Posted: February 10, 2010 10:03 PM
  • Warden626

    Entertaining and enlightening show this week that brought up a few questions to my mind. First and foremost is the subject of a possible PS3 Mass Effect release. As someone who is without a 360 and hesitant of the PC version due to DRM (I know ME2 is better and Steam could circumvent it etc.) I would love to have this amazing series available on my console of choice. That said though I just don't see EA/Bioware pushing this on a new system on anything other than a complete collection a la GOTY Fallout 3. And even then when you consider the differences between ME1 & ME2 (and likely ME3) would they even be willing to rerelease ME1 without overhauling the entire game? I would personally be very surprised to see them pushing out the Mass Effect series on the PS3 without updating and making 1-3 a complete and homogeneous experience.

    Though I'm a bit disappointed with the news Dead Space 2 is getting pushed back I have to admit if the delay means more time to refine the game and give it its own window where it can shine then so much the better. Not to mention the rumors of DS2 having more "epic" combat moments/events like Modern Warfare 2 I don't mind the extra months if that means getting those things right.

    As a fan of the original Fallout PC games I'm glad Obsidian is putting in a "hardcore" mode. It's great that as was mentioned on the show it isn't forced on the player but a choice for them. And I'm going with Abbie on the mutant genital issue but can you really argue with guaranteed crits?

    Being lucky enough to get Bioshock 2 on release day despite the blizzard that's decided to thump the mid-west I'm sadly only about a quarter of the way through. So far from what I have seen I agree with Jake that it was a terribly missed opportunity to expand the game's opening sequence. Not knowing the full details of the story what has been pushed since details first came out about this game is that your character, Subject Delta, is the first Big Daddy. Why couldn't they use that? Show us a pristine rapture, let us meet the scientists and architects of this wonderful city, make it what the first one was above all else, memorable.

    All that said though I do love the game. The combat is amazingly entertaining and I enjoy the stepped up difficulty of the hordes of Splicers. Getting the Master Protector trophy last night after an hour of trial and error was one of the achievements I was proudest of getting in recent memory. I hope there isn't a bait in switch at the end but even so any nerd rage it may produce there are plenty of Splicers around to feel my wrath.

    Having not taken part in ME yet I can't really speak to their morality system but it sounds like the bigger issues at play are the same as in Bioshock and first widely seen in Bioware's gem KOTOR. There aren't enough options to be morally gray or do sudden changes for a character as most systems aren't so much about the morality as they are about filling a meter to get a certain bonus or perk ability. I like the idea that Bioware seems to be pushing for the KOTOR MMO that your changes are going to have definite ramifications for your character and it may work better in an MMO where you can't save but even with the ability to reload a game there should still be a way to play a morality system as something other than a secondary XP gauge.

    Again thanks for providing such a great show and keep up the great reporting through DICE and beyond. And Adam with your Little Sister napping ideas, Law & Order marathon watching, and project natal's Milo fixation I'm worried the next show I'll see you on is going to feature Chris Hansen.

    Posted: February 10, 2010 9:56 PM
  • jazBuddha

    looking at morality in games and looking back at fallout 3 I felt the desisions related to morality were a bit off. It became clear part way through the what the developers translated as "morally good" were what the Legal system considers morally sound rather than what may be morally good in a post apacolypse type situation. I personally acted as a sort of vigilante out of what was moral but punishing people who had done something wrong or inhuman. For example I killed Tenpenny of tenpenny towers for being a bigot but that got me bad karma points. When you deal with something as ambiguous as what is "good" and what is "bad" in a game you cannot help but reveal a cultural or philisophical or even religious idea of whats good or bad because these things are always subjective.

    Posted: February 10, 2010 9:31 PM
  • SoloReverb

    I love the show guys... best show on the site is Feedback (In my humble opinion)... I loved how Abbie got away with cursing in the beginning, but getting bleeped at the end... Can't wait for Fallout New Vegas either Patrick (great Lost coverage on the site and T-shirt selection in the show,as always BTW) ... and please Adam, more obscure refferences!! Thanks again for my weekly fill of in depth discussion...

    Posted: February 10, 2010 9:22 PM