This week, Adam sits down with a topic we're all familiar with; bosses. Not the guy who wears short sleeved shirts and scolds you for spelling errors. No, we're talking about the larger than life characters you fight at the end of a level, or to be more specific, the huge guy at the very end of the game. The Sess has a bone to pick with final bosses, because they always seem to be a bit removed from the rest of the game, requiring simple memorization or trial and error to defeat them, rather than usage of the skills you've acquired throughout the entire game.
This is where you guys come in. Leave a comment below outlining how you think game developers could improve final boss battles. Just try to be civil, expressive, and creative. But first, press play and find out what Adam has to say on the subject.
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Taboo5289
Final fight between Old Snake and Revolver Ocelot in MGS4. There was no one way to beat him and he's tough as nails. Not to mention it's an epic moment and every final boss battle should be an epic moment, not because your close to winning the game but because the moment of the fight captures your attention and emotions then the rest of the game has.
KilferMF
I think that much of what everyone has said revolves around "hard work" or "earning the victory". A boss battle done WRONG is one that is easy, or doesn't feel much harder than the average boss fight.
I think one critical part to really well done boss fights are emotion. I know that games that had good boss fights (for me), always made it important to actually kill the guy in the end. Sepiroth was a great example because in the game, he actually did things that impacted you emotionally (or most of us). Mass Effect is another perfect example. While the boss fight isn't particularly hard, (spoilers!) he forces a choice on you. And it matters just that much more because YOU have to choose who will live or die, and he put you in that position.
In the end, it's all about testing your skill, and trying to get a real emotion out of you. All of the greatest villains through history (fictional or otherwise), stirred our hearts. Darth Vader, Hitler, Wesker all come to mind. I know there are more.
universalchild001
I do agree with Adam. There are some boss battles that are less exciting than some of the other boss battles in the same game. There was a comment about MGS boss battles and I have to say that MGS3 had one of my favorite final boss battles, but they made it very cinematic with the angles and all. Very different in my opinion. I think to make better boss battles they should probably allow you to use the skills you've acquired instead of going the whole" touch this circle three times and it's over" route, but then again I guess it depends on the genre as well whether it be RPG or Action adventure or FPS. Either way more thought should go into final boss battles as it's the climax of the whole story, but stay in the context of the story as someone else made a good point about braid as it would have been ruined with a huge crazy boss battle instead of a boss stage.
NetNapoleon
For me, I felt such achievement at the end of Fallout 3 (before DLC) when I got the end narration and compilation. The massive boss battles that we see in a more classic style of game, do have a certain sense of achievement that is more about "look at the bad ass I just killed." But games with more character immersion (Fallout 3) that video at the end showing the lives that I had affected, what I had accomplished and how humanity has been changed by me being there, well that gave me a sense of pride I rarely get from games. A more immersive ending that shows your legacy is what I like. I do enjoy Modern Warfare style battles too though.
happymeowmeow
On a side note, I've noticed a continuing problem with the comments section is mysterious duplicate entries. What causes this? Is there any way to fix it?
mezat05
A big part of boss battles is the sense of desperation or challenge during them. Satisfying ends to boss battles only seem to come if you lose yourself into the character being played and feel the sense of urgency and struggle yourself as the character would. Killzone 2 for example had one of the hardest final battles Ive ever played, just getting to fight Radec himself was an extreme challenge through the hordes of enemies he sends at you. And although there wasn't anything actually innovative in that battle, the sense that you NEED to kill him, and the fear you could die at any minute makes the experience very intense and memorable.
Long story short, If you want a memorable final fight, you have to have an invigorating story and at least a semi challenging fight.
Thanks for reading
classic7
I'm just happy to see that i'm not the only one complaining about less than satisfactory final boss fights. Almost everyone knows that MGS delivers the goods everytime, and Oblivion did a pretty good job for me personaly, but besides that i can't really think of much else in the past 2-4 years ( again besides Zelda, Mario, Shadow of the Colossus) that really impressed me.
happymeowmeow
The final boss should be the summation of everything in the game itself. It should represent every aspect of the world you've seen so far.
Whats the point of playing a game? The visceral experience? Living a story? Defeating it? Is beating it part of the story?
Competitive narrative? The game trains you to defeat it when you think about it. You can't finish the story unless you "kill" it.
I love JRPGs where the final boss is inevitably God or God-like deity. Makes you feel like when you finally get to it, in a way you are meeting the creators themselves (albeit second-handedly), who are the real Gods of that universe.
Examples? The Shin Megami Tensei games come to mind. Usually the final bosses are manifestations of all the larger enemies, and aspects of the game itself you've encountered. To beat them you have to master everything about your character that you've developed in the course of the game. Like Nyx from persona 3. Or the God in the Sun from Digital Devil Saga.
Just thought of the Retro Game Challenge series, that was a great boss. A giant disembodied head that transports you back into his past so you can play games with him as a child. When you meet all his challenges, he frees you and effect makes you the new "boss" of the game, every part of it now unlocked to you.
Just things to think about, there is no real answer of course.
siknik
Now I think that a good final boss needs to give out a certain feeling rather than having a good mechanic. For instance there needs to be a sence of despair comming from the player. If there is a sense of dispare then that player becomes more attached to the game hopping that he can just make it out alive from this certain failure. A quick example would be final boss battle you are on a ship fighting the main antagonist. Well the ship is sinking too and it seems like there is no way to defeat the enemy in time without going down with the ship. Now on a certain boss battle like this instead of a health metor there could be an invisible "timer". What that would mean is that the final boss could be defeated right at the last moment before the players character gets destroyed. Thats just a quck example, but what I'm trying to say is that video games need to get the player to feel extreem motion on both end of the spectrum to make it satisfying. Without the feeling of almost getting destroyed there wont be that feeling of great accomplishment of defying the "odds" and becoming victorious. Think of it like a ying and yang kind of way....
siknik
Now I think that a good final boss needs to give out a certain feeling rather than having a good mechanic. For instance there needs to be a sence of despair comming from the player. If there is a sense of dispare then that player becomes more attached to the game hopping that he can just make it out alive from this certain failure. A quick example would be final boss battle you are on a ship fighting the main antagonist. Well the ship is sinking too and it seems like there is no way to defeat the enemy in time without going down with the ship. Now on a certain boss battle like this instead of a health metor there could be an invisible "timer". What that would mean is that the final boss could be defeated right at the last moment before the players character gets destroyed. Thats just a quck example, but what I'm trying to say is that video games need to get the player to feel extreem motion on both end of the spectrum to make it satisfying. Without the feeling of almost getting destroyed there wont be that feeling of great accomplishment of defying the "odds" and becoming victorious. Think of it like a ying and yang kind of way....
siknik
Now I think that a good final boss needs to give out a certain feeling rather than having a good mechanic. For instance there needs to be a sence of despair comming from the player. If there is a sense of dispare then that player becomes more attached to the game hopping that he can just make it out alive from this certain failure. A quick example would be final boss battle you are on a ship fighting the main antagonist. Well the ship is sinking too and it seems like there is no way to defeat the enemy in time without going down with the ship. Now on a certain boss battle like this instead of a health metor there could be an invisible "timer". What that would mean is that the final boss could be defeated right at the last moment before the players character gets destroyed. Thats just a quck example, but what I'm trying to say is that video games need to get the player to feel extreem motion on both end of the spectrum to make it satisfying. Without the feeling of almost getting destroyed there wont be that feeling of great accomplishment of defying the "odds" and becoming victorious. Think of it like a ying and yang kind of way....
siknik
Now I think that a good final boss needs to give out a certain feeling rather than having a good mechanic. For instance there needs to be a sence of despair comming from the player. If there is a sense of dispare then that player becomes more attached to the game hopping that he can just make it out alive from this certain failure. A quick example would be final boss battle you are on a ship fighting the main antagonist. Well the ship is sinking too and it seems like there is no way to defeat the enemy in time without going down with the ship. Now on a certain boss battle like this instead of a health metor there could be an invisible "timer". What that would mean is that the final boss could be defeated right at the last moment before the players character gets destroyed. Thats just a quck example, but what I'm trying to say is that video games need to get the player to feel extreem motion on both end of the spectrum to make it satisfying. Without the feeling of almost getting destroyed there wont be that feeling of great accomplishment of defying the "odds" and becoming victorious. Think of it like a ying and yang kind of way....
crocodilius
i wish i had an opinion, but i play world of warcraft and that game never ends ;O
kweigand85
I think the problem with a lot of boss battles (Batman: AA) is you're not actually fighting the boss. They just send waves of enemies at you while shouting encouragement from a safe place and will only jump down when they are defeated for a short fight, then the cycle is repeated until they die. Developers need to have boss battles where you actually fight the boss, not waves of lesser enemies.
Username34
who here beat sephiroth first try in KIngdom Hearts
exactly you didnt it took training and time to do it . It took strategy and indurance to beat them thats whats missing from games like Gears of War and such. But to answer his question instead of just getting to the last level it being harder then the previous and fighting something you have no back story to like a giant monster or a giant bug. You need the story to revolve around this character or you will feal like you are just fighting a nother monster. Also for the last level to be good doesnt mean it has to be hard it means it has to do alot of twist and turns to give you this battle of good vs evil. AT the end of medalt gear solid 4 the level was fairly simple you have to walk down a hall way to get to the other end. But it was still enough to make you feel like if you didnt get there and kill liquid the world was not going to be a better place. So to have a change what we have done today is not to have this amazing story line just to have a boss battle at the end which has no importance not just the biggest baddest enemy but something you actually know as a person that you think will change the course of the history of the game if you kill it.
Username34
who here beat sephiroth first try in KIngdom Hearts
exactly you didnt it took training and time to do it . It took strategy and indurance to beat them thats whats missing from games like Gears of War and such. But to answer his question instead of just getting to the last level it being harder then the previous and fighting something you have no back story to like a giant monster or a giant bug. You need the story to revolve around this character or you will feal like you are just fighting a nother monster. Also for the last level to be good doesnt mean it has to be hard it means it has to do alot of twist and turns to give you this battle of good vs evil. AT the end of medalt gear solid 4 the level was fairly simple you have to walk down a hall way to get to the other end. But it was still enough to make you feel like if you didnt get there and kill liquid the world was not going to be a better place. So to have a change what we have done today is not to have this amazing story line just to have a boss battle at the end which has no importance not just the biggest baddest enemy but something you actually know as a person that you think will change the course of the history of the game if you kill it.
Username34
who here beat sephiroth first try in KIngdom Hearts
exactly you didnt it took training and time to do it . It took strategy and indurance to beat them thats whats missing from games like Gears of War and such. But to answer his question instead of just getting to the last level it being harder then the previous and fighting something you have no back story to like a giant monster or a giant bug. You need the story to revolve around this character or you will feal like you are just fighting a nother monster. Also for the last level to be good doesnt mean it has to be hard it means it has to do alot of twist and turns to give you this battle of good vs evil. AT the end of medalt gear solid 4 the level was fairly simple you have to walk down a hall way to get to the other end. But it was still enough to make you feel like if you didnt get there and kill liquid the world was not going to be a better place. So to have a change what we have done today is not to have this amazing story line just to have a boss battle at the end which has no importance not just the biggest baddest enemy but something you actually know as a person that you think will change the course of the history of the game if you kill it.
Username34
who here beat sephiroth first try in KIngdom Hearts
exactly you didnt it took training and time to do it . It took strategy and indurance to beat them thats whats missing from games like Gears of War and such. But to answer his question instead of just getting to the last level it being harder then the previous and fighting something you have no back story to like a giant monster or a giant bug. You need the story to revolve around this character or you will feal like you are just fighting a nother monster. Also for the last level to be good doesnt mean it has to be hard it means it has to do alot of twist and turns to give you this battle of good vs evil. AT the end of medalt gear solid 4 the level was fairly simple you have to walk down a hall way to get to the other end. But it was still enough to make you feel like if you didnt get there and kill liquid the world was not going to be a better place. So to have a change what we have done today is not to have this amazing story line just to have a boss battle at the end which has no importance not just the biggest baddest enemy but something you actually know as a person that you think will change the course of the history of the game if you kill it.
PaperGolem
Looking back through other comments abit, I think mattvo had good points. The main obstacle should be what the developer made the AI, not how high of a number the programmer assigned to hp.
N8R
Mega Man?
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