This week, Adam sits down with a topic we're all familiar with; bosses. Not the guy who wears short sleeved shirts and scolds you for spelling errors. No, we're talking about the larger than life characters you fight at the end of a level, or to be more specific, the huge guy at the very end of the game. The Sess has a bone to pick with final bosses, because they always seem to be a bit removed from the rest of the game, requiring simple memorization or trial and error to defeat them, rather than usage of the skills you've acquired throughout the entire game.
This is where you guys come in. Leave a comment below outlining how you think game developers could improve final boss battles. Just try to be civil, expressive, and creative. But first, press play and find out what Adam has to say on the subject.
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FrontLineSpartan119
I agree with Adam strongly about his view on boss battles. I grew up in the earlier days when boss battles were challenging, fun, and frustrating, all at the same time. It gave you a sense of accomplishment that you worked your entire way through the game, killed the countless ninjas, dodged the fireballs, played through the ridiculous puzzles and platform stages and finally made it to the boss. And he or it was ridiculous. Nowadays, final bosses have lost their steam(excluding Ninja Gaiden 2 because all of the bosses are still ridiculous, even for me).
It really seems to me that developers didn't spend enough time developing the build up to the final boss. When I perceive the word \"boss\" I think the end game. This is the defining character that has nicked you in your quest to save the world, princess, or whatever and isn't going to just simply say \"oh, my bad. I'm sorry. let's be friends now\". *SPOILER ALERT* Take Mass Effect for example. From beginning to end, your character wanted a piece of Saren. He's the maniacal evil no good alien that wants to ultimately erradicate all existence in the galaxy. When you finally catch up to him, you have you skills leveled up, you're a at a high level, better equipment, and you have a good feel for the game. Plus, you're motivated to take him down to see what happens from there. Ok granted, the boss fight wasn't the best, but it was a good presentation of it. I give Bioware props for making a great game that could have survived without the boss fight. I would have been fine with just a cut scene of Shephard and Saren trading gunfire until Shephard does the cliche' \"hero\" thing and somehow causes debris to squash Saren, with a twist to lead into a sequel. Overall, I guess my main point is improve the boss battle formula for the gamers with the skills derived from playing the game. Not just one point you focus on and it's game over like the Sess mentioned.
mastematt
Hi there. The open ended games that seem to be lacking in the epic boss battle feeling at the end of them is a problem, but I think it can be remedied. RPG open ended games have an easier time, as they can and do in some cases rely on the drama and the story to resolve them. Oblivion did this pretty well with the ending to the main quest I think ending in an epic way but with no boss battle in the end, even though the boss did show up. I think games like fable 2 and the grand theft auto series do suffer from lack luster boss battles, but I think they can be remedied by inserting quirks to the bosses. You want them to stand out in personality as well as in power level. Give them some sort of special attack for the character to overcome, such as in Crackdown my favorite boss battle was with the russian woman who had a rather explosive personality. Also, you don't have to make them invincible except for some weak spot, just give them more hit points. In the pure RPG, the end bosses have always been satisfying to me in Bioware's games. They actually follow the advice a lot of other people have been giving, which is to let the character get to know the big bad before you meet him. The only caviat to this is while you want your boss to be tougher than all the other enemies before, don't make him so tough that it takes hours to beat him, and I AM looking at you JRPGs.
So basically make your bosses quirky, more powerful but not invinicible except for their left ear, and make them dramatic and your bosses will be epicly awesome!
Insert_Witty_Title
When I think of a final confrontation, I.E. final boss battle, I suppose I would kind of imagine quite possibly the ultimate challenge or obstacle that you must overcome in order to, well, dominate that particular gaming experience. I say particular, because, of course, every game is different (at least when talking about genre) that the way in which you'd play them will be different, regardless of personal style or whatever, because of that inherent difference. Now when I mentioned "dominate" that's what I mean: You play said game, you get good at it, then you're confronted by the final boss or challenge and then you need to use the skills, intelligence, and tactics that you had learned previously playing the rest of the game in order to win and, subsequently, have fun doing it. Does this mean I'm for those kinds of "final" battles where the enemy basically emulates all the previous challenges you've encountered and just re-uses them on you? NO!!! What I'd like to see is something where the developers actually sit down and think, think really hard, about what the core elements of all the previous game-play had been about, and try to come up with quite possibly the most challenging and yet original, but not with that kind of stitched together feeling, battle at that point in the game. I think that would only be fitting since this would be the end of the game itself, that that sense of accomplishment can really mean something, instead of like, "Oh, I beat the game. Now what?"
Personally, my favorite games are probably of the action-adventure and RPG genres. This being said, yeah, I would like to see some insane difficulty, of course not to the level of throwing-my-controller-at-my-T V difficulty but insane nonetheless. And like I previously stated, I think that this can really only truly be accomplished by the developers realizing what the games there are making are about. They need to ask questions beginning with how and why a lot more. I have no idea if I'm being clear enough, or if I'm just rambling, but I think the gist of what I said gets through. Increased difficulty. Check. Developers always asking, "How can this sum-up the game but not feel recycled?" Check. Well, maybe. Maybe this would be the way to go. I simply don't know. But maybe.
Frostey
Wow, not sure if this is still active but an inredble topic. I think he problem with the boss battle is the games themselves. So many games follow what could be called a math or system. In your video you talk about te build up in movie's and how the largest battle is not always at the end. Why must it be so in games. I think some times reaching the end can be as satisfying as any battle.
I also think aside from changing the game formula all together, that more than anything else the Boss battle is the final reward for the player or players. The battle shouldnt be a chalange becouse all you have gathered and earned does'nt work it should be a challange that requires you to use every thing youve earned in the game and be the culmination of everything that the game had to offer. Were this is in the game should be at the apex of the story not nesasarily at the conclusion.
Frostey
Wow, not sure if this is still active but an inredble topic. I think he problem with the boss battle is the games themselves. So many games follow what could be called a math or system. In your video you talk about te build up in movie's and how the largest battle is not always at the end. Why must it be so in games. I think some times reaching the end can be as satisfying as any battle.
I also think aside from changing the game formula all together, that more than anything else the Boss battle is the final reward for the player or players. The battle shouldnt be a chalange becouse all you have gathered and earned does'nt work it should be a challange that requires you to use every thing youve earned in the game and be the culmination of everything that the game had to offer. Were this is in the game should be at the apex of the story not nesasarily at the conclusion.
Instasquid
Hmm.... So your saying that to make a great boss one shouldn't cast away knowledge of game mechanics learned through non boss playtime? One game that I thought did it nicely was No More Heroes. Its hard though because it seems like most games put in a final boss as a extra and the rest of game doesn't have much to do with it. I must play more games to understand.
V_Translanka
How about a psychological final battle where as you're fighting you have to convince the endboss that he does indeed suck and nobody likes him (without getting him angry & destroying the world or w/e). Then he eventually breaks down and kills himself! I could totally see that go down in one of the MegaMan Star Force games...>_>
mark_west
Build a game backwards. Start with the end and the boss battle. Something new.. might be fun..
ominuse
I believe a boss battle is not something you should standardize, each game is different both in story,graphics and gameplay. If you try to make the ending of a game predictable what fun is there in playing it in the first place? Some games like Fable2, Oblivion, Resistance2 call out for a fight against one big sumbuk, but could you imagine the same scenario being added to a game like GTA4 or Call of Duty? While its true there should be more thought given to the ending of a game, it seems cheap to think theres one almighty way to do it.
flipsez
I thought Sess had already presented his solution when he mentioned that the final fight should be the final proving ground for the skills you've learned.
I guess one solution is sort the negative version of that, don't require the player to learn an entirely new skill for the end of the game; that's lame/
A second solution is to break-up the final fights into parts where the ante is constantly being upped and forces the character to use the varieties of skills they've learned. However, even though the battle is going to get harder, the boss shouldn't just heal for the next section of fighting. Each section should feel like you've actually thwarted a strategic advantage of the boss you are fighting, so they are forced to use more desperate means.
A way to help this along is to pay as much attention to the final arena of the fight as the boss him or her-self. The final stage should be dynamic. Theoretically the location of the final fight could be pushed into different areas, but what I'm proposing is that the final area should be designed in such a way so that, when the fight does transition, it feels like a new area even if in the same room.
I think length is another good idea to consider. All players will complete a final fight in variable times, but a fight needs to be "full." They should be longer; sort of, well "full" like I said before." By "full," I mean give them fun things to do that feel like they are actualy having a definitive effect on the fight.
Obviously, completely omitt things that might just become a chore. And definitely don't throw random obstacles in the way because then you are not really fighting the final boss, you are fighting a random obstacle. Don't artificially inflate the length of the fight with things like repetitive battle cut scenes. Just do the stuff that Sess said before about testing learned skills and ensure that the challenge is fresh. But length is still the key.
Length should be considered in light of the length of previous boss fights and the entire length of the game itself. If the entire game has been exceptionally long, make sure the final fight has some real meat to it. If it's a short game, don't let the final fight take up 20% of game time.
Now as far as difficulty is concerned, just keep it reasonable. Ensure "normal" difficulty means normal difficulty. If people demand super-hard final boss fights, include an optional boss fight or an adjustable difficulty scale for them.
As far as ending boss's storyline is concerned, the final boss should be kept in perspective at all times in developement.
Any gameplay and major stage changes should be accompanied by a re-examining of how the final battle will play out.
Any major changes in the storyline or in the main character's backstory should be accompanied by a re-examining of the final boss's motivation and actions that lead him to the same final confrontation.
And any major changes in the aesthetics of the game should spawn an inquiry as to whether the final boss or physical aspects of the character should be redesigned.
All of these final fight aspects (storyline summation, final gameplay advancement, and aesthetic excellence with real continuity) should have an early starting template and said template should be re-examined with each major change during the game-making process. By combining these; hopefully the final boss fight can become a definitive fight and therefore produce a satisfying ending because it's tying together the major aspects of the game into a grand climax. If this is done well then, in my opinion, any closing cut scenes after the cessation of gameplay will flow naturally from the final confrontation and they will feel less contrived. The final battle will be less of a random event, and so the story's ending won't need to be random as well.
These are my recommendations.
ZeroKadaver
I'd like the ability to play bosses over while avoiding the 90% of the game that either would be too tedious or time consuming to play. Then make them super elite and badass so I'd have a reason to use the feature. Oh yea they have that in some games.
heavy_metal_king
ok this is really wierd i had posted like 5 comments on this segment and for some reason theyre all gone if any one sees them awnser me because im angery
Soahfreako
I think the ending boss battles in both Kingdom Hearts 2 and the .hack//G.U. Series were really fun. The button sequence leading up to the final boss in Kingdom hearts was amazing, and then the final boss battle delivered with a difficult fight. For G.U. The final boss fight was both challenging and fun to fight. There wasn't really a super weakness that you need to hit 3 times (seems to be the stereotype for boss battles now-a-days). Then the best part was that even after the boss battle, there was still a bunch to do, such as the forest of death event. You could also still unlock more characters and weapons. I think these two games are great examples of really good boss battles in my opinion. Well, that's my two cents lol.
mread
It often seems like the bosses are designed by different teams than the rest of the level. The worst boss battles seem to be the ones that are insanely difficult compared to the rest of the level or have some "special" to beat them. The first Gears of War seems to me to be the prime example of boss battles done wrong. The missions, themselves, had one level of difficulty and the bosses had another. I still haven't killed Raam and lost interest in finishing the game a long time ago. Call of Duty 4 seems to be level design done right, with each level featuring bigger battles than the previous one so the difficulty gets ratcheted up organically. I actually liked the final levels of the Halo games with the first and third being races against the clock, which was different than the previous levels but the difficulty had been increased through the levels to the point where the only challenge left was to do something different.
Darknesscomes16
A good example of a final boss fight that does not utilize all or really any of the gained abilities throughout the game is Super Metroid on the snes. Mother Brain was a very simple fight and served more as a scene than a real boss fight. Ridley on the other hand was at the time the most challenging boss fight for me. I still love that game.
JohnnyMalarky
The Metal Gear Solid series (as I'm sure a few of you might have said) is a GREAT example of how boss battles should be. Sure you got the plan jane boss fights but they are VERY rare in this game, case in point Ocelot in the first MGS. Just run around and shoot him, and then you fought Grey Fox and Psycho Mantis. No one knew what the HELL to do when you fought them, like with the other bosses in the series, you had to think a little or just die a few times before someone called you and told you what to do. You couldn't come right at them and expect to kill them.
Call of Duty like Adam said, its so great because its always a grand finale just like in the movies. I can't really say always though because I only played 2 and 4.
Halo. Yes I said Halo. With Halo though, I'm thinking more about the Grand Finale. Its a race against time where you (and maybe a friend) are flooring it through the level and everything is coming down around you and you have limited time to get out. It brings a sense of urgency, much like CoD 4's final FINAL level on the plane especially on the higher difficulty levels where you barely even get to reload your weapon. I'm sure other games have done this but I haven't played them so if you want to tell me about them, message me.
The final game I can think of is... Breakdown for the Xbox. It didn't get a good score on X-Play and may not have played all that great but I loved the storyline for this game. The "last" boss that you fought in the game wasn't even the last boss because there was maybe 56 hours more of the game left. Its like ok, HERE I AM! Ready to kick some butt! And then you get completely mowed over and mocked by him. I haven't seen any other games that have done this and I would like to see more of it but definitely not overused because it would get old VERY fast. The game has to have a great storyline as well.
HellsJanitor122
Frankly boss battles are becoming old fashion. Personally the only way to make a exhilarating ending is to just make the ending the biggest battle that you are faced with in the game. I find that music can make a game ending intense and bring a game together.
Games that fallow this example are CoD, Left 4 dead, HL 2 epi 2 and most strategy games like C&C.
Although i do realize that many games can't fallow that. If there is a single boss that is far stronger then the main player, the main player should not have to find weak spots or find an opportunity to attack, but rely on their intelligence, speed, agility and their iron will to land the finishing blow. (Such as Bioshock, and Fable/ Fable2)
DrN
I think, if they were smart. They would build an algorithm that compiled the boss, depending on various factor's. Such as how many skills you have, if you entered in cheat codes or not. And many other variables. This might require a lot of processor power and work. But to have a boss that is completely original after playing the game differently would make any game worth playing over and over again.
GooseTheWolf
I think it has to do with the fact that a lot of games today are utilizing the whole "press cirlce then watch your character jump all over the place and take out everything with a mini cut scene," with games like resedent evil 4 and God of war. This can make it TOO cinematic and less interactive. I think god of war did it right though. they sprinkled it in with insane combat changing it up and making it fun. I like my boss battles to fast paced, a little time consuming, and the boss to have an insane amount of health. Games like god of war, devil may cry, and mega-man always satisfied that for me.
It's also great when you have to find out how to kill the boss. MGS series and shadow of the colosses did an amazing job at this. Running around trying not to die as you try to figure out how the hell you're going to bring this douche bag down is half the fun.
Variety is important too whith a bunch of weopons and different ways of attacking to fit your style. When you have the same hack and slash combo it can get boring.
JimMD102
This is a very complex matter. When it comes to RPGs, it has to be hard. Something so hard I need to level up to 99 or 100 so that I stand a chance. I remember feeling so powerless against Ultimecia in FFVIII and then beating it a day before I had to leave for a couple weeks. It was so satisfying because it was all me and I tackled the giant after those many 2 hour tries. Overall, I would have to say make great use of previous features. I remember the boss battles in MP2 echoes being really epic and that was mostly because each boss offered something new in style that made a great combination of switching between that new beam and that new visor and reinventing the need for old gadgets. Portal did a pretty good job in that respect. Back to MP2, then the Emperor Ing battle was the best part. The hentai monster and the spider phases were amazing because they were hard to get past, but required new and slightly complex cycles of action that were made easier after getting used to it and becoming stronger. This also reminds me of another plus in boss battles and that's music. A great music piece can make a boss battle memorable. I remember the emperor ing spider music being my fav music in the game. Sometimes great music can make a great boss battle 2x better like mega man bosses for example. My personal favorites are One Winged Angel, Emperor Ing Spider, Theme of Alex (RE CV), Snake Eater Remix during The Boss boss battle, any Bowser battle theme in SMG, the music during that last escape with the arbiter and chief in HALO 3 even though it's not really a boss, now I'm going on and on too much. Hope my pedantic writing is insightful.
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